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Zack and Aerith from Final Fantasy VII Ever Crisis

listen i am obsessed with this single line of dialogue. it's a Final Fantasy game full of people named crazy shit like GENESIS RHAPSODOS and WEISS THE IMMACULATE and then there's this dude. some random ass guy from the in-game lore equivalent of rural Louisiana whose name may as well be Jim.

And Jim Has Seen It All. he fell 300 meters and crashed through the roof of a church and he walked it off like it was nothing. he's seen his mentor grow one single wing and take to the skies majestically like an albatross. he survived when an alien brain fungus consumed his coworker's consciousness spurring the guy to commit arson and a small genocide. fresh outta high school he's abducted by scientists and trapped in a large petri dish for four years. he escapes and then singlehandedly mows down an entire goddamn army of hundreds of troopers and gets shot like at least twenty times. he tears a metal tree out of the ground and chucks it at a helicopter like a toy shovel, acting cool about it. "ugh mondays am i right? haha"

the rapture is coming. the sky has ripped open like a wrestler's t-shirt and everyone is mourning their impending doom and Jim is just like "it'll be fine lol" but then SEPHIROTH arrives and shoves him into a wormhole. he wanders the empty backstage of reality, and only then does he start to slightly freak out just a tiny bit. no problem. hop in hop out, quick boss battle against the brain fungus coworker, easy peasy. he gets savewarped to another universe, kinda annoying but he can deal, he thinks.

But now there's a fucking meteor crashing down on top of him. And finally, finally— Jim cracks. He can't handle this. What the actual fuck is my life, he finally wonders. "What the hell is going on!?" he finally asks.

"I think we're friends in every universe"

Since forever and I hope I'll never change

Do you ever feel so detached from the world because you’re constantly living in the fictional/fantasy worlds in your head given that reality is just too boring, too limiting, and too uneventful????

We'd seriously need a clear paraphrase to get over the misinterpretations about this song.

Guitar is the main instrument in both Hollow and Hollow Sky, just like Crisis Core soundtrack, especially CC Aerith's theme, The price of freedom and Why, all playing at the end of the game to narrate THAT scene. And Why has a guitar acoustic version too.

Hollow sky plays in Sector 5, an homage to Crisis Core, "sky" is the symbol of Zack and, coincidentally, the new key art of Aerith has her staring at the sky.

Funny: Aerith's final line is about the sky and Hollow starts when Zack shows up at the end.

All coincidences I guess.

Tetsuya Nomura discussing the Final Fantasy VII Remake theme song

My response to someone asking me to clarify why I say Cloud can't have been in love with Aerith after only 36 hours yet he loved Tifa as a little kid when they never even interacted. Isn't that hypocritical?

This is divided into 3 parts for clarity like my original comment.

Part 2: Gonna split this reply in 2 parts for  clarity

Pt 1 Clarifying  my point on Cloud's feelings for both girls

The point I brought up is that Cloud start to fall for Aerith eventually yes (that's  why she says you  can't  fall in love with me) but  her reference was of the original game because she knows of the future.  She doesn't mean in that moment.  He has no idea what  she's talking about there but  says she  can't decide that for  him. But it's not  forever  love in the span of two days. She also  says even if he thinks he has it's not real/in his imagination.  Alluding to his identity crisis. He may think  he's in love but there's stuff going on he's  unaware of.

It's not  forever love with Tifa during the game either though not even during Highwind scene. That's the beginning of their feelings being realized. Their feelings also need time to grow and figure themselves out. But Cloud actually gets that time with Tifa because at the end of the game they confess mutual feelings and live together less than three months later. There's plenty of time for development. Unlike with Aerith there wasn't time for it to go further not  that his feelings stopped cold. He just never  time to figure them out before the guilt took over.

He did interact more than once with Tifa they used to see eachother around. They were not close. She watched  him from afar. Cloud just  never  approached but he watched her too. And 16 years old Cloud and 16 years old Tifa liking eachother is canon in Crisis Core and shown in Last Order. Again he falls for  her like  a kid would but  over  a much  longer period of time. 8 years. And these are feelings he still has. It's puppy love. Of course 8 year old isn't going to fall in love for real. It isn't forever love but  definitely a start.

As I said Cloud acts like a kid when it comes to his feelings. He doesn't comprehend them and that's  big part of his character even before his mind broke. That's why 2 days wouldn't mean forever love with Aerith when heck 8 years later he was still struggling with coming to terms  for his feelings for Tifa in Crisis Core.

He's still can't vocalize them in the present and his true self and memories are locked off that's why it's hard to explain.

He doesn't really  understand until the Highwind Scene and in Case Of Tifa and he voices it  and he's still struggling with all sorts of feelings in AC not neccessarily romantic ones. He even  struggles with his fatherly feelings towards Marlene. Heck being happy with Tifa and the children when Aerith  and Zack are dead causes guilt so bad he runs away. Feelings aren't his forte. And the trauma that he's gone through as young as age 9 when he fell off a friggin mountain and was blamed for trying to save a girl precious to him and after that losing those he held dear over and over again doesn't help.

He's a character that takes a lot of time to emotionally come to terms with things especially things like romantic love. So no what he had with Aerith is something he never figured out because he was oblivious. And he is so wrapped up in guilt in AC it probably confused him more.

It takes regular people time to really fall in love. Short term love is infatuation when we don't know someone yet. Now apply it to a character like Cloud who doesn't deal with feelings like regular people. It's unrealistic to say he loves anyone after knowing them for what is basically 36 hours during that scene.

Cloud having the mentality of a 16 year old is the present Cloud. Nomura himself says it. I posted the interview about Remake. Here it is again https://www.inverse.com/gaming/ff7-remake-interview-story-changes-cloud-jessie-wall-market

Part 2: Literally no time has passed for  Cloud between the Nibelheim incident and the events of the story. 16 year old Cloud is the present.

Zack dies in September Tifa finds Cloud between then and December. December  9  is the first bombing he meets Aerith two days later and dies weeks later Meteor fall is in January. Case of Tifa starts in March. Advent Children is 2 years later.

Biggs says it too he says Cloud and the children have so much in common.

Or do you think Cloud mentally caught up after 5 years of being in a mako coma after just a month? No, story wise in the present he's 16. Nomura even says that's why Jesse teases him. He's mentally 16 the whole time.

Cloud realizing his feelings for Tifa is what happens in the Lifestream scene of the game AFTER Aerith's death.  But he obviously is still crushing on her in Remake. The devs said when he's with  Tifa his True self  comes out so that's why.

His 21 year old self couldn't have gotten over Tifa because his last memory before joining AVALANCHE is Zack's death and his last memory that he can actually recall is finding Tifa in the reactor and thinking she's dead. That's yesterday for him. He meets Aerith a few days after waking up and seeing Tifa again.

Aerith dies less than four weeks after meeting her.

Then he finds out about his true self which IS his 16year old self.

That self has feelings for Tifa. That Cloud is literally unlocked in the Lifestream sequence and that's why the developers themselves say in more than one quote that Cloud and Tifa have held favor for eachother for many years before he calls her two the water tower a popular date spot. This was even before they spoke only once as you put it. And the devs go on to say they reveal mutual feelings beneath the Highwind then live together in Advent Children.

This is why in Case of Tifa Cloud is telling her he has her now and now he knows what that means and he always be there to remind her of herself. This is also why Tifa is asking Do You Love Me? And Nojima mentions things not going well in Case of Tifa but maybe the kids can help them work it out. He didn't  want to give opinions  on love marriage and family. Because they were going through relationship issues. Three years later they're still together.

For a timeline reference Cloud liked Tifa since he was a kid

At age 8 he goes to Mt. Nibel with her

At age 14 he calls her to water tower still likes her

At age 16 he hides from her in his mom's house because he still likes her

That scene where Cloud's mom is talking about girls? He's currently hiding from Tifa in that scene because he's ashamed of facing her because he didn't join SOLDIER.

Tifa however is looking for him and in Crisis Core she keeps asking Zack about him

Tifa had a crush on Cloud from afar too but neither of them realized their feelings

That's why they call eachother childhood friends Tifa WANTED to be closer and befriend him

And of course so did he so he rationalized it in his broken mind. Guess we were friends...

During the reactor sequence which is a few days after leaving his mom's house Sepiroth burns the town

Cloud finds Tifa thinks she's dead and it causes him to kill Sepiroth in rage

He still had it bad for Tifa in that scene Zack had pointed it out earlier

Then he's skewered and captured for experimentation right there

He doesn't wake up until 5 years later during Zack's death

Then he wanders around broken for almost 2 months and finds Tifa again.

Seeing her makes the Jenova cells activate and that's why he thinks he's a SOLDIER because she thinks he is and Scells use memories to manipulate

He forgets Zack and anything related to his true self and his true self is locked behind his memories.

His memories of Tifa are also mostly locked

So yes that's why Cloud doesn't show as much interest in Tifa during the time he is SOLDIER! Cloud as 16 year old Cloud does.

He meets Aerith slowly warms up to her as she draws him out of his shell

And eventually they grow closer

She senses his true self is in there somewhere and tells him during their date but he doesn't understand

She goes off to fight Sepiroth alone because she realizes that something is very wrong with Cloud and she doesn't want him to suffer a breakdown

But he does anyway when Sepiroth shows him the real memories he locked away then lied to him

He falls back into Mako poisoning after being in the Lifestream and his then Tifa pieces his broken mind together using their childhood memories the real ones

True Cloud is now back and for him the Nibelheim incident was yesterday and for him he's still 16 years old and his feelings for Tifa that were locked with him  return

That's why the devs talk about them realizing mutual feelings in the Highwind scene.

Case of Tifa starts

That's why things work out like they do. The song Midgar Blues allude to True Cloud's past with Tifa and refer to their feelings. the eng English official version says "left my true love behind". The devs say they held favor for eachother for many years before before even meeting at the water tower.

That's also why Nomura and Nojima say Cloud in the remake is mentally a kid trying to be an adult and why he tries to be cool and why he wants to hug Tifa during her resolution, And why Biggs tells him he has so much in common with the kids.  He wants to be adult like, but  he doesn't realize he literally lost 5 years of his life.

This would not magically change when he met  Aerith a few days later.

The entire game 1.5months after waking up again. He meets Aerith less than a week after Tifa finds him. He has literally no time to be anything other than 16 year old Cloud.

This is just going off  official  material

Next part is my summary in my own words

Part 3

Everything I have written above is what the devs themselves have said.  It's all official  statements.  Not my opinion. As for  a summary in my own words on what it all means.

Tifa is Cloud's past but  she's also his present.  The easiest way to think of it is Cloud's  true personality as another side of himself. because this story follows the Gnostic  ideas of two competing selves. Cloud's  16 year self is his current self but he is unaware.

The reason a lot of people think Tifa is the past is because they don't understand that Cloud acting as SOLDIER Cloud is the one who fell for  Aerith. And that really complicates things. 

Real Cloud was in there but  locked off in his subconscious.

Aerith saw through him but  Real Cloud doesn't actually come back until the end.

SOLDIER Cloud and Real Cloud are not the same. They're essentially two personalities seperate from eachother. But  because of JENOVA's manipulation it's also as if Cloud himself was split into  two people. When True Cloud is in the LifeStream scene he tells Tifa  "Then... this is goodbye, Tifa. Until we meet again......". When he wakes up he says  "Yeah...... Tifa...... We finally...... meet again......". Because True Cloud wasn't actually present until that moment beyond his subconscious.

He was locked away until Tifa literally Lock Heart unlocked him.

It's Nomura and Sakaguchi and Nojima and Kitase after all.

The Gnostic theme here is of two selves fighting for control and causing inner turmoil. Unless one reaches their Tifaret on the path of Sepiroth these selves will stay at war and the the self will be a false self that can't reach it's Final Heaven. This is based on ideas of enlightenment in Kabbalistic mysticism and its what the lore of FF7 is about. Gnostic themes in general are a really big part of SquareEnix games.

And if anyone  wants  a source for anything I have said here feel  free to ask. I have reciepts it would just make this post too long if I post them all at once.

The truth is a lot of us played this when we were young and a lot of stuff went over our heads but Final Fantasy VII is as complicated and mature as Xenogears and has similar lore. It was never a simple adventure and romance story, there's A LOT going on. Basically the Cloud we see in the game until the LifeStream scene is essentially a fake self and we learn the mystery of that through the narrative.

Now it's been confirmed the Remake is canon to the Compilation so it's going to be a lot clearer especially in terms of the Gnostic themes. They're bringing back their original ideas about the Thermaturge too.

Matchy-matchy 👑🥲

Zack and Cloud parallels

Crisis Core vs. Final Fantasy VII Remake

Talk about a coincidence!

(Find the previous post here)

Tiny beautiful details: little CloTi hint

Final Fantasy universes are populated by all kind of fantastic creatures and monsters, like Moogles, Chocobos, Bahamuts, etc..

Cloud has always been compared to Chocobos by fans because of his hairstyle. In the OG Tifa points out this resemblance.

In Chapter 9 of the Remake Chocobo Sam compares Tifa to a Bomb. The name of the side quest is A dynamite body so we can guess the reason of his comment.

Interestingly enough, in the OG Tifa compares Cloud to a Chocobo when the group finds the bird’s nest on the way to Mt Corel, and the “Bombs” could be fought for the first time on the bridge in Mt. Corel.

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The following picture is Tifa’s key art for Final Fantasy VII Remake. She is wearing her default weapon, the Leather Gloves. Their description is: Well-worn leather gloves that have seen their fair share of fights. It implies that she’s had them for a long time.

...Now let’s take a closer look at her bracelets

Do I need to add anything else?

EDIT:

Sure I do!!! In Chapter 10, when Aerith and Tifa talk about going shopping together, Aerith sais Cloud will be their pack-Chocobo!

...What a coincidence!

"With you by my side, I'll never give up no matter how bad it gets."