Morvran Afagddu Appreciation Post

Post-Camlann Incorrect Quote

Bedivere (to Arthur): I just fought in a battle for you, most of my friends are dead, you’re dying, I’m unemployed, the land is in turmoil and potential anarchy, Kay is I-don’t-know-the-heck where, you just killed my brother by hugging him, and I don’t even get to keep the darn sword?

Wait a minute...

Edward the Third was an Arthuriana nerd who named his son after Sir Lionel, and...

...made up a title for him, which....

...had previously existed in Arthuriana and didn't refer to a place. Coincidence?

Probably.

Well, darn. That would've been very interesting. Then again, maybe the knowledge that Edward III was such a nerd he named his son after Sir Lionel is enough to ask.

Dindrane: claimed I could remember my unborn sibling from Heaven, then gave a description of said sibling which turned out to be accurate 

Taliesin: went outside during a lightning storm and tried to fly away by using a Mary Poppins umbrella to catch the wind while making dramatic poetic declarations (I got about two feet in the air)

Sebile: tried to practice necromancy to talk to a dead Monarch butterfly

.

This isn’t something I did, but an evangelical organization once showed up at my family’s house to see whether one of us was the Messiah, and that seems pretty Galahad-esque.

arthurian legend characters as weird things i did as a kid

Arthur: created clubs for the sole purpose of making myself in charge of them

Guinevere: played barbies, but the plot of the game was that they were fighting in world war iii

Lancelot: pretended to be an exterminator by spraying actual hornets with a hose, and somehow not getting stung, against all odds

Gawain: held stair-jumping competitions, and regularly jumped down around 10 stairs at a time

Merlin: designated a particular tree branch for reading and refused to let anyone climb this branch

Gaheris: held ‘screaming contests’ in my backyard to which invited my friends (this is exactly what it sounds like and it was banned by my mother immediately)

Dinadan: eaten spaghetti while riding a bike

Galahad: made a graveyard for bugs

Morgana: recruited a friend’s little brother to spy on said friend because she wasn’t talking to me

Mordred: accidentally made a gallon of poison

Happy late ace day!

Arthuriana has so many major aspec characters, and it’s fabulous

Here are a few characters who I interpret as aspec:

Dinadan!!! He is an absolute aroace icon. In a source whose name has slipped my mind, Isolde comments on how he ought to be in a relationship and his reaction is something along the lines of, “Yeah, hard pass. How’s that working out for you, by the way?” (Read it with sarcasm).

Galahad, Bors, and the Grail Heroine all seem quite happy about the eternal chastity thing. None of them have any close calls with demon ladies, unlike poor Percival, the one allo person in the friend group. (Yes, Bors has a son, but a cursed ring was involved there, which is why as much as I do not stand Bors’ Morte misogyny, I will always pity him).

Kay is very rarely ascribed romantic relationships, and in one Welsh source, his father prophesies that Kay’s heart will be “eternally cold”, which could be interpreted as never enflamed by love.

Any others who come to mind?

Palamedes’ family in Arthuriana

Palamedes, oh, Sir Palamedes. We all know this man. Either he’s crying in front of wells or he’s on the hunt for the Questing Beast. The question is: how much do we know about his family? Some of us know that his father’s name is Esclabor and that he has a brother named Safir. In other Arthurian narratives, he has more family. As such, I did a deep dive by researching several different Arthuriana, three from the thirteenth century, one from the fifteen century, two from the sixteenth century and two from the 20th century.

The first one that we’re exploring is “Guiron le Courtois” from the Palamedes romances, written in the 13th century by an unknown author. In the narrative, around the time of the crowning of Arthur as King, the Roman emperor throws a party because his daughter got married. The emperor is brought tributes of different kinds, including people to be his slaves. A young man between 24 to 30 years old called Esclabor, his wife, several of their children (including a two-month-old Palamedes, who is named after his grandfather) and Esclabor’s brother, Arsafar, are brought from Babylon to the Roman emperor (Cadioli & Lecomte, 2021; Löseth, 1890).

It just so turns out that at that exact same moment someone attempts to kill the Roman emperor and Esclabor saves his life. More events happen, but the point is that Esclabor earns his and his family’s freedom. Esclabor asks permission to the emperor for leave so he can through Logres and then disembark at Northumberland. The emperor grants his request with much regret since he has come to consider him as a son. The family arrives safe and sound to their destination. On the way to Logres, they meet King Pellinor who is out on a hunt and he and Arsafar save his life, when two knights try to kill the king. This causes for them to have favor in King Arthur’s court (Cadioli & Lecomte, 2021; Löseth, 1890).

On the other hand, in another version of “Guiron le Courtois”, it is mentioned that Palamedes has a sister named Florine, whose lover, the Knight of the Castle of the Three Roses, died of love for her. He leaves his own eulogy carved in a marble staircase, talking of whose lover he was and for some knight to avenge him (Lathuillère, 1966).

On the other hand, in the Post-Vulgate of the “Lancelot-Grail”, written by several unknown authors in the 13th century, during the Quest for the Holy Grail, Galahad and Bors lodge at Esclabor’s home. Esclabor narrates to them that he is from the area of Galilee and as a young man he decided to travel to Britain to see and test how great the knights of the area were. He arrives during the start of Arthur’s reign. He stays in the court for a bit, everyone assuming he is a Christian. One day, they bring a beautiful young lady, whose father was a giant the knights killed (Asher, 1996).

They tell her that if she becomes a Christian, they’ll give her riches and someone to marry. She refuses, telling them that she would rather die. No one asks for her until Esclabor does to the amazement of Arthur. Arthur asks him what he is going to do with the young lady since she isn’t a Christian. Esclabor proceeds to tell the king that he’s a pagan just like the young woman and that that’s fine by him. It earns him the nickname “the Unknown” since Arthur thought he knew him, but it turns out he didn’t at all (Asher, 1996).

Esclabor and the young lady go on to marry. They have twelve sons, Palamedes being the eldest. One afternoon, during family lunch time, they all hear about the Questing Beast. Esclabor decides to hunt it down, alongside his eleven sons. Palamedes can’t make it because he’s sick at the time. The quest doesn’t well since Palamedes’ eleven younger brothers die at the hand of the Questing Beast, while Esclabor is badly wounded. This makes Palamedes swear that he’ll hunt down the Questing Beast to avenge his brothers (Asher, 1996).

Similarly, the 13th century “Prose Tristan” written by Luce de Gat and Helie de Boron, is in agreement with the Post-Vulgate in mentioning that Palamedes is the son of Esclabor and that he has eleven brothers. Moreover, he uses a black shield and wields two swords, which makes distinguishable (Curtis, 1994).

In contrast, in Thomas Malory’s “Le Morte d’Arthur” from the 15th century, Palamedes is stated to have only two brothers. Their names are Saphir and Segwarides (whose wife Tristan sleeps with, which similar with the Prose Tristan but Segwarides isn't Palamedes' brother in that narrative) (Malory, 2009).

Moreover, in the 16th century Spanish Arthuriana “Tristán de Leonís y el rey don Tristán el joven, su hijo”, Palomades (as Palamedes is called) is mentioned to have two brothers, Garacón and Separ (Safir), which coincides with Malory but the name of one of the brothers is different. In the second part, Palomades is still hung up on Iseo (Isolde) a decade or so later after she died. He sees that Iseo’s daughter of the same name resembles her mother a lot and decides to kidnap her so he can have the chance he didn’t have with her mother. A relative of “Tristán el joven” kills Palomades in order to rescue young Iseo from her captor. Naturally, Palomades’ brother Garacón appears to avenge his brother, and he gets killed (Cuesta Torre, 1997).

Then, comes Palemedes' cousin Salandro to avenge his cousins and he gets killed as well. Afterwards, Salandro's brother Amagrafo comes to avenge his brother and cousins and gets killed too. “Tristán el joven” hangs their shields and arms for exhibition as an example of what happens to those who come fight against him or something like that (Cuesta Torre, 1997).

Earlier in the same narrative, it is mentioned that Palomades is a descendant of Ebalato, whose shield belonged to “Joseph Abarimatía.” Because of the shield’s miraculous properties, Ebalato becomes a Christian. However, he’s in incarcerated for becoming a Christian and he dies in prison. His wife (whose father is called Palomades) gives birth to twins, whom she raises as Christians. However, their descendants return to their ancestors’ religion (Cuesta Torre, 1997).

Ebalato is the Spanish equivalent of Evalach, a companion of Joseph of Arimathea in the Vulgate. He is also called Evalach the Unknown, just like Esclabor is also called the Unknown later in the Post-Vulgate narration (Chase, 1993; Asher, 1996).

In addition, Evalach was gifted by Joseph of Arimathea a shield that belonged to him (Chase, 1993), which is similar to the Spanish narrative. The mention of Evalach in this narrative essentially makes Palamedes distantly related to Lancelot and Galahad since their ancestor Nascien was the brother of Sarrassinte, who was married to Evalach (Chase, 1993). The only thing that differs between narratives is the death of Evalach, since Ebalato dies in prison, while in the Vulgate Evalach dies centuries later after he meets Galahad who gets the shield of his ancestor (Cuesta Torre, 1997; Chase 1993).

Lastly, in the Vulgate, it is mentioned that Segurades has a nephew called Canagues, who was his squire (Carroll, 1993). Meanwhile, in the 16th century Portuguese Arthuriana “Memorial das Proezas da Segunda Tavola Redonda” written by Jorge Ferreira de Vasconcelos, it is mentioned that “Monsolinos de Sulfocia” is the son of Palamedes and that he uses dual swords like his father. Moreover, he has a cousin called “Leonces de Renel”(De Vasconcelos, 1867).

If all these sources are conflated together, it can be thus deduced that:

Esclabor and his wife are parents to twelve sons and one daughter. Out of the twelve sons, only four are mentioned by name which are Palamedes, Safir, Segurades and Garacón. Their daughter is Florine.

Arsafar is Escablor’s younger brother. His sons are named Salandro and Amagrafo.

Palamedes is the eldest son (or the youngest one). He has a son named Monsolinos of Suffolk.

Safir is most likely the father of Canagues, who later becomes his uncle Segurades’ squire. Meanwhile, Leonces de Renel is most likely the son of either Segurades or Garacón.

The name Palamedes is a family name, seeing as there was an ancestor named Palamedes. In turn, Esclabor’s father was named Palamedes, whose grandson was also named Palamedes as well.

Palamedes is a descendant of Evalach and Sarrassinte, sister of Nascien. That makes him a distant relative of Lancelot and Galahad who are descendants of Nascien.

References

Asher, M. (1996). The Post-Vulgate, part II: The Quest for the Holy Grail. In N. J. Lacy (Ed.), Lancelot-Grail: The Old French Arthurian Vulgate and Post-Vulgate in Translation: Vol. V (pp. 110–289). Garland Publishing, Inc.

Cadioli, L., & Lecomte, S. (2021). Il ciclo di Guiron le Courtois. Romanzi in prosa del secolo XIII. Roman de Meliadus. Parte prima. S.I.S.M.E.L. Edizioni Del Galluzzo.

Carroll, C. W. (1993). The History of the Holy Grail. In N. J. Lacy (Ed.), Lancelot-Grail: The Old French Arthurian Vulgate and Post-Vulgate in Translation: Vol. II (pp. 115–238). Garland Publishing, Inc.

Chase, C. J. (1993). The History of the Holy Grail. In N. J. Lacy (Ed.), Lancelot-Grail: The Old French Arthurian Vulgate and Post-Vulgate in Translation: Vol. I (pp. 1–163). Garland Publishing, Inc.

Cuesta Torre, M. L. (1997). Tristán de Leonís y el rey don Tristán el joven, su hijo: (Sevilla, 1534). Universidad Nacional Autónoma de México.

Curtis, R. L. (1994). The Romance of Tristan: The Thirteenth-century Old French “prose Tristan.” Oxford University Press.

Ferreira De Vasconcelos, J. (1867). Memorial das Proezas da Segunda Tavola Redonda (M. Bernardes Branco, Ed.; 2nd ed.). Typ. do Panorama.

Lathuillère, R. (1966). Guiron le courtois: Étude de la tradition manuscrite et analyse critique. Librairie Droz.

Löseth, E. (1890). Le roman en prose de Tristan, le roman de Palamède et la compilation de Rusticien de Pise: Analyse critique d’après les manuscrits de Paris (E. Bouillon, Ed.). Macon, Protat Frères, Imprimeurs.

Malory, T. (2009). Sir Thomas Malory’s Morte Darthur: A New Modern English Translation Based on the Winchester Manuscript (D. Armstrong, Ed.). Parlor Press LLC.

Less than a day left. Wow, this blew up (by my standards). I guess a lot of people have opinions about how they’d die if they were knights. As some have pointed out in the tags, Lancelot and Gawain should probably be statistically higher, and (evil) magic ladies should be lower. I find the current highest statistic kind of funny; apparently, I am one of few who would be killed by their own family blood feud instead of someone else’s. Were it a question of my Tumblr namesake, the answer would be different. I’m no expert, but I don’t know of any account of Taliesin’s death, apart from an implicit death in the Battle of Camlann if he’s still alive then. Then again, he’s a bard, not a knight, unlike his son, who is definitely set to die at Camlann.

Camlann. I forgot to include being killed at Camlann (or in any battle against people other than Lancelot, Breuse, and the Orkneys) as an option. Despite the fact that that’s how a very large number of the knights die.

Darn.

Palestinians see Israel as a colonial project that tore them away from their homeland and Jews see Israel as a decolonial project that brought them back to their homeland and we can sit here and argue about who is “right” for 7 billion years or we can hold two narratives at once and recognize that the strip of land between the Jordan River and the Mediterranean Sea is a homeland for both Jews and Palestinians so we need to find some common ground and a way for both groups to live their freely

what do you love most about kay which you would love to see in a story, like what would you find would make a good depiction of sir kay into a great depiction of kay

In order for Kay to be adequately sharp-tongued he needs to be sharp-minded.

Far too many Kays in retellings are just mean or crass in the basest sense. Phobic, cussing, and frankly come off as a dumb bully with no depth. Even when medlit Kay borders on a bully, he’s never stupid. He needs to be clever enough to have a quick clap back, to invent a witty nickname on the spot, call out Gawain or Gareth or Lancelot on their hypocrisy when no one else will.

Unintelligent Kay holds no interest for me and it’s a lazy way to write him that’s become all too common (not on tumblr, thankfully). It started with The Sword in The Stone (1963) movie and it’s gotten worse from there.

Other than that, I want to see Kay resembling his Mabinogion characterization with the powers and stuff. He does have Otherworld powers in the Lavinia Collins books, but then, that requires reading the Lavinia Collins books but I don’t recommend whatsoever. There are many historical fiction examples from Henry Treece or Edward Frankland, but they don’t have magic. I want the magic!

Additionally I want Kay who is both Arthur’s foster brother and his seneschal, simultaneously. This is more common in books, retellings are pretty good about that. Movies are slacking! Only a handful where he gets to be both!!

Lastly I want his close relationship with Bedwyr restored. Again, there are a decent amount of retellings I could point to as examples that do a great job with that. But I want Gawain too! And Lancelot! And Guinevere! And Ragnelle! Even Gareth!! The dream team. Kay can’t just be this outsider with no friends, that’s not true to medlit at all. They love him! Arthur loves him!!!!! SHOW IT TO ME!!!

This type of Kay is definitely here on tumblr. Seems bloggers understand the assignment! I see this Kay frequently in art and stories passed around here and that’s great. I’ve also attempted to include this sort of Kay in my books. But I want even more of him! He is the character ever!!!

why are all the Jews suddenly posting about cheesecake, you ask? because it’s Shavuot!

sorry, let me give you a quick guide to Jewish holidays

Rosh Hashanah: dip apples in honey, contemplate feeling guilty

Yom Kippur: feel guilty, don’t eat

Sukkot: build a treehouse, shake a lemon at God

Simchat Torah: dance with a Torah scroll

Hanukkah: resist tyranny, eat fried food, set things on fire

Tu B’shvat: hug trees, eat every type of fruit and nut you can acquire, do complicated wine math

Purim: put on a drunken play about a teenage beauty queen, cast shade at tyrants

Passover: don’t eat pastry

Maimuna: eat a ton of pastry

Lag B’omer: set things on fire, shoot arrows, learn about rabbis with laser eyes

Shavuot: eat cheese and stay up all night reading with your female friends

Tisha B’av: mourn, preferably AT people

Hope that clears up any confusion

I'm a big fan of Madoc ap Uther, although I haven't written much about him yet. Here are some of my thoughts on him, not all of which are characterization-related but hopefully will be helpful:

He's described as "protector of happiness" (in "Madawc Drut", Marged Haycock's translation), which I find really interesting, as well as "a citadel of prowess/through feat and jest". Protector of happiness could be referring to his humor entertaining people, to his martial prowess keeping them safe, or both. (The same goes for the title itself: "drut" could mean bravery or foolhardiness but could be related to "drúth", Old Irish for jester).

Either way, it sounds like a sort of a duty, like this is something he feels obligated to do, which is obvious if he's a warrior but says a lot about his personality if he feels obligated to make jokes and keep others happy. Maybe there are some citadel walls around his inner nature and emotions; that might be a stretch in terms of literary interpretation, but potentially interesting in terms of characterization.

He seems to be very well-liked and seen as a merry fellow, but he definitely has a serious side: "before {he} was slain / he pledged himself by his hand", which is rather cryptic and suggests a sense of duty as well as a dire circumstance.

He was the son of Uther but didn't become king, so he could be Arthur's older brother who was killed before Uther died or a younger brother who didn't succeed Uther because Arthur was the eldest son (which would suggest that Arthur was raised by his biological parents). He could also be a younger brother who was the heir but was killed before Uther died (if Arthur was raised by Ector/Cynyr), but he is Eliwlod's father, so he was old enough to have children at the time of his death, which makes the last option seem less likely.

Skene's translation of "Marwnad Madawg"/"Madawc Drut" is much longer and says that he was killed by "Erof", but Haycock claims that that's the result of multiple poetic fragments which were on the same page being mashed together and that that bit is actually part of a lost poem about King Erof, AKA Herod, being dragged down to Hell. I think her translation is generally considered more reliable (and seriously doubt that Madoc was killed by King Herod, though that would be interesting).

He might be referred to as "{t}ransgressing" and "a famous leader" in a poem along with other heroes like Bran, Arthur, and Alexander the Great, but Madawg/Madog/Madoc is not a rare name. There are at least two different Madawgs mentioned in the Black Book of Carmarthen (ap Maredudd and ap Gwyn) who definitely aren't him and one who might be him but might not. As it is, the only pretty-certain references to him are "Madawc Drut" and a brief mention in Arthur's dialogue with the eagle. This is just about all the information we have to go off of, so my fondness for him comes entirely from "Madawc Drut", which is, unsurprisingly, from The Book of Taliesin.

Do we have any Madoc ap Uther/Madawg ap Uther fans out there? I'm trying to combine him with the more "continental" legends bc I think it'd be interesting but I'm wondering if anyone's written him before or has some characterization thoughts?